Slight rant you can call it!

[Greg_Nuspel]

Casil I still say roast the politicians

[Michaelaw]

And if we don't get started soon, the beer will be all gone

[Michaelaw]

Casil you are of course right but also maybe pigeon holing in reverse. I will slam the government any chance I get as well as Chevron, Monsanto etc. The employees of these outfits are just that...Employees, some genuine shining talent huddled into a group with many slackasses. As in any corporation (and if you really think about it the gov is just a corporation in a different shirt) you will find every level of employee. In non unionized corporate world the slackers tend to get kicked fairly quickly out of the park! In the heavily protected gov/union world however the mix is far different so the ratio of effective vs non effective employee value to the employer is a totally different game. As for my CUPE reference, I stand by that as a general observation and have a fairly good (I believe) understanding of its structure ergo its demonstration in the real world. As I said though, in any working environment be it corp or gov there are the shining stars, gems and general filler. I'm guessing your mother shone brightly

[casil403]

You are right too Mike....in ANY company there are people who both work hard and there are slackers who either outright do nothing or pretend to look busy. I too have worked for both union and non-union outfits. I worked for UVic as a chef way back and I kid you not, they had a guy whose sole job was to go around the campus and change the lightbulbs...he was not even a ticketed electrician.and they had several ticketed electricians on campus...we were not supposed to change lightbulbs...we had to call the main switchboard who would call him and he would make time to come down and do it sometime in the week! Mind you we managed somehow to look after the lights ourselves....lol...shhh but don't tell anybody! We called him "Lightbulb Bob"! Swear it's the truth!
Meanwhile, we were the least paid workers on campus who all had journeyman tickets in cooking because we were "not considered part of the University:"...funny we were in the same union (CUPE) and paid the same dues. Here's the kicker... if I wanted, I could walk across the street and sell donuts at the snack shop and make $2 more/hour...at a place that was "Part of the University".

I have also worked in non-union restaurants that were just as bad where a union might have not been a bad thing. It was pretty tough dealing with the mental/verbal abuse and sexual innuendo from the Chef, watching the lazy-a$$ janitorial staff who got away with doing the bare minimum (and kept their jobs) and not being able to take days off when I was sick because there were no sick days available...mind you we had a good benefit/health plan, RRSP plan and the hours were pretty good...which was why I stayed mostly.
I dunno...I'm glad I am out of the cooking business and on to something new...and you know what? There will probably be more of the same wherever I next end up as well to to some degree...I've just learned to do my job the best I can and not worry about others.. that way I won't get crazy or bitter...Life will be as it should.
Nature of the beast I think.

Again, there are 2 sides to every coin....and you are right.... there are good/bad apples everywhere in the government, in the private sector, in all walks of life..which I guess was my point as well.
End rant....lol! So where's the beer and when is the damn BBQ ready?

[Bambi]

I'll bring the stuff for Smores.....

[Marko]

For me, it's more about human nature than government/non government workers.

Most people will simply slack off (do a mediocre or less than mediocre job) if they can get away with it...period. MOST people. There will always be exceptions....thank goodness.

Given that most government workers are unionized (read EXTREMELY difficult to fire) they will follow this pattern on average imo. (thanks for supporting this POV iggy)

Given that non unionized workers can be easily fired compared to unionized workers, the level of their work will be consistently higher and they will be way way way more productive....on average.

[casil403]

For me, it's more about human nature than government/non government workers.

Most people will simply slack off (do a mediocre or less than mediocre job) if they can get away with it...period. MOST people. There will always be exceptions....thank goodness.

Given that most government workers are unionized (read EXTREMELY difficult to fire) they will follow this pattern on average imo. (thanks for supporting this POV iggy)

Given that non unionized workers can be easily fired compared to unionized workers, the level of their work will be consistently higher and they will be way way way more productive....on average.

I'm sorry Marko, but again I am going to disagree with you here.
It is my opinion that most people do a good, hard and honest job for their employer (be they union or non-union employees) and the slackers are the exception and minority and not the rule. The problem is that people allow them to get away with being slakers because they don't want to make waves or be seen in bad light by their peers...everybody complains but no one does anything...Iknow as I am guilty of it as well in my past. I believe apathy is what lets slackers get away with what they get away with.
I do agree with you however that it is hard to "can" someone in unionized enviroments.
Maybe I am naive here, (I don't think so though) but I really, truly beilieve that the majority of people work hard for their income so I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this point.

[Marko]

then we agree to disagree casil
In no way does your last paragraph represent my immediate experiences. The "allowing" thing you talk about is the crux of the problem. The allowing is done because unionized slackers cannot be fired unless they do something REALLY bad (like sexual harassment). The larger the organization, the greater the slacking. Mediocre work is NOT one of the things that gets them fired.

I do believe that most people on this planet are good people....but that is completely different.

[casil403]

then we agree to disagree casil
In no way does your last paragraph represent my immediate experiences. The "allowing" thing you talk about is the crux of the problem. The allowing is done because unionized slackers cannot be fired unless they do something REALLY bad (like sexual harassment). The larger the organization, the greater the slacking. Mediocre work is NOT one of the things that gets them fired.

I do believe that most people on this planet are good people....but that is completely different.

Well okay then...the beer's on me if we ever meet up we can continue our disagreeing to disagree discussion in person!

[Bambi]

see how she always brings it back to beer? there's a reason I like this woman!

I'm going to disagree with both you! I think that MOST people start off motivated and hard working but many lose the momentum along the way. Perhaps the job becomes too mundane, perhaps they get discouraged seeing others get away with poor performance, perhaps it makes no difference to their boss so they figure 'what's the point'. There are many reasons for it but no excuses.