when a photo is no longer a photo

**Bambi** · 01-30-2010, 10:05 AM

Jimmy and I had a brief discussion on this in http://www.photography.ca/Forums/f11...rney-7096.html.

and that got me to thinking-when does a photo cease to be a photo?

**AcadieLibre** · 01-30-2010, 02:18 PM

I think we have had this discussion here before but than I could be wrong lol. Once you remove, add or distort the image to the point it no longer looks like it did when the camera took the shot it is no longer a photograph but digital art. I am very much a purist, what comes out of the camera should be fit to print and if it needs minor adjustments thats fine but when you manipulate the image to where you are altering it to change it from what the camera shot it is not longer a photo. I play with PS a lot just for fun but my PHOTOS pretty much are ready for print right of the camera, if I want a B&W shot I do the change on my camera so I am shooting in B&W. That is just my opinion, I am sure I am in the minority here, most do not see anything wrong with PSing out items that that wish were not in the shot, to me well you should have taken the shot without that object in or fit it so it looks like it belongs.

PS has done more harm to photography than any other preceding technology. All images are now assumed to be PSed or questioned about their authenticity which sucks. Sorry but what you shoot should be printable, once you start to digitally manipulate it you no longer have a photo but digital art. I have become well known in the market as a purest and it has not hurt but helped my sales immensely. In the end it is up to each photographer to make that decision, I only have these standards for me and think they apply to no one else who feels differently, they can do as they please but it has changed photography for the worse not the better. It means you can take horrid photos, go home, PS the many mistakes than pass it off as a good photo, which it isn't, it is a good piece of digital art. All I really have to say on it, it is well known how I feel about it and no need for me to discuss it more that what I have said here. It is up to each and every photographer to make their own decision and not anyone else's and it is my opinion and it means nothing to anyone but myself.

**penodr** · 01-31-2010, 12:38 AM

AcadieLibre, so what would you call Ansel Adams' images? Are they photos or art? He used a darkroom to "alter" his photos. He would "burn" and "dodge" his prints. Photoshop just moves the darkroom into the computer. For example, when I process a photo as a B&W I use photoshop to alter the color channels. I might bring up the blue or red channel or lower it. This is no different than putting a filter on the camera before taking the photo, the effect is the same. It just saves me the time to change 10 filters on my camera and take the same photo. I would disagree that every photo is assumed to be a photoshoped photo. As long as you are not shooting for the news then go ahead. They are still photos just run through a different darkroom process than my grandfather used.

To answer Bambi's question when does a photo stop being a photo? I don't think it ever does. If it starts out life as a photo then it just becomes a editted photo. You just have to be honest about any processing you have done if asked, and never submit you work as uneditted when it was.

Dave

P.S. For the record, all my photos are processed in lightroom or Photoshop, before being presented anywhere.

Dave

**casil403** · 01-31-2010, 12:57 AM

I think you can have both...at least I try to do both. I have photos that I have taken and posted here that are straight out of camera with no adjustments and I have photos that I have both minorly and majorly manipulated in PSE and lightroom. For me It depends on the effect I want and what I want the image to convey as a whole. I think that is what art is about...taking a scene or an image and presenting it in a way that an artist wants to convey...there is no right or wrong answer on how to get that IMO.

I think a photo can also be called be a mixed media image and a mixed media photograph when it gets into the extreme end of processing....Just like a painting with more than one medium is often called mixed media artwork. What I find interesting though is the reaction I sometimes have observed is that when people qualify it as no longer a photography, it is almost taken (on both sides...by the commenter and the author of the work) like it is a bit of a slight against the image....which I don't believe it is nor should it be.

So all that said , I like the term mixed media photography and JJJ's term he coined in another thread called Artography.

**Michaelaw** · 01-31-2010, 01:34 AM

At the end of the day, it seems to me that if photography is to be considered an art form (which it was not in its early life) then it's ability to speak to me, alter my viewpoint, or appeal to my emotions is dependent on the artist. How the artist arrives at a point where I am moved is entirely dependent on how they present their vision. Ansel Adams was indeed heavily involved in his darkroom post work as are many other great pro's. I don't think there is anyway to blanket the whole idea of when a photograph ceases to be a photograph in light of its manipulation, one has to decide for oneself where the line has or has not been crossed. To AL I have to say it's your choice to be a purist but when you are shooting for B/W whether you flip the switch in camera or in PS is simply a matter of where you flip the switch. I prefer to switch in post as I then have the color info should I decide later to use it

**Mad Aussie** · 01-31-2010, 02:27 AM

Answer = When JumpinJimmyJava does anything with a camera!

Serious Answer = When my eye tells me it's more graphic that photo. My eye sees when something is no longer life like. At that point it ceases to be a photo to me.

**Michaelaw** · 01-31-2010, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by Mad Aussie

Answer =

Serious Answer = When my eye tells me it's more graphic that photo. My eye sees when something is no longer life like. At that point it ceases to be a photo to me.

And that's as it should be, the heat would only go up if you tried to get me to believe you were right