Delineation

[tomorrowstreasures]

Travis,
I quote myself here:
attach a title to their name - "professional" and then, feel the right to charge people these ridiculous fees

A- I do not attach a title to my name and
B- I charge a minimal amount.

I have accepted payment from very few people - and struggle doing it. I have come to the point where I am being taken advantage of with my equipment and skills and have decided that I need to be accepting some sort of compensation for those things.

The problem lies in the fact that naive people are being taken advantage of by titles and a bit of luck. It is no different than power of suggestion.
I still maintain a governing body needs to be in place so that there is a source for people to turn to that are turning over thousands of dollars for their special events to be captured. And more importantly to protect the pros.

[Ben H]

Time to post a linkee on this topic...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/7.htm

[kat]

Time to post a linkee on this topic...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/7.htm

ha ha

[tomorrowstreasures]

Time to post a linkee on this topic...

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/7.htm

I posted my reply- had to run out of the room came back and saw how big the font was - so, i fixed it. sorry about that !!! but-in a way it is good that that happened b/c Ben here probably thought I was shouting - which I was not trying to do, only emphasize, which lead to his adorable reaction with this link.
Very good, Ben.

[Travis]

Travis,
I quote myself here:
attach a title to their name - "professional" and then, feel the right to charge people these ridiculous fees

A- I do not attach a title to my name and
B- I charge a minimal amount.

I have accepted payment from very few people - and struggle doing it. I have come to the point where I am being taken advantage of with my equipment and skills and have decided that I need to be accepting some sort of compensation for those things.

The problem lies in the fact that naive people are being taken advantage of by titles and a bit of luck. It is no different than power of suggestion.
I still maintain a governing body needs to be in place so that there is a source for people to turn to that are turning over thousands of dollars for their special events to be captured. And more importantly to protect the pros.

A little bit pregnant??

Pertaining to governing bodies there are tons of the out there.... National Associations, Provincial Associations, Wedding Associations etc.. All are designed with your sentiments in mind. Qualifying members of the PPOC have to be recommended by other PPOC members and must have business taxation numbers among other things. They must submit work for accredation in a specific field.

However, none of this will ever protect the naive people you speak of.... because naive people don't do things that other people do to protect themselves... namely...

-Call references of the professional they hire
-Observe several other weddings in the professionals folio
-Protect themselves by way of a sound, fair contract
-Interview other photographers to get a summation of quality and price etc.



Out of curiousity.... what is a ridiculous fee to you?

[tomorrowstreasures]

A little bit pregnant??

Pertaining to governing bodies there are tons of the out there.... National Associations, Provincial Associations, Wedding Associations etc.. All are designed with your sentiments in mind. Qualifying members of the PPOC have to be recommended by other PPOC members and must have business taxation numbers among other things. They must submit work for accredation in a specific field.

However, none of this will ever protect the naive people you speak of.... because naive people don't do things that other people do to protect themselves... namely...

-Call references of the professional they hire
-Observe several other weddings in the professionals folio
-Protect themselves by way of a sound, fair contract
-Interview other photographers to get a summation of quality and price etc.



Out of curiousity.... what is a ridiculous fee to you?

If I would take my nose out of a book, I would have learned by now that there are already such organizations in place, and this is good news to me!!! thanks so much for sharing that.
As far as ridiculous fees (for a wedding) - if a photog is not accredited to my standards, anything above a $100-200 fee for time and use of equipment is robbery.
How about you?

[Barefoot]

If I would take my nose out of a book, I would have learned by now that there are already such organizations in place, and this is good news to me!!! thanks so much for sharing that.
As far as ridiculous fees (for a wedding) - if a photog is not accredited to my standards, anything above a $100-200 fee for time and use of equipment is robbery.
How about you?

If I spend 6hrs shooting a wedding and the reception and another 4hrs in PP with the 800-1000 images, anything less than $400 is a wonderful wedding present I’ve given the couple.

[Travis]

If I would take my nose out of a book, I would have learned by now that there are already such organizations in place, and this is good news to me!!! thanks so much for sharing that.
As far as ridiculous fees (for a wedding) - if a photog is not accredited to my standards, anything above a $100-200 fee for time and use of equipment is robbery.
How about you?

I charged $400 for my first family portraiture session (5 people) and about 3 hours on site. This fee included 8 8x10 ($25.00) and 125 high rez images with a personal use limitation. I'll never do it so cheaply again.

Now it's $500 with no prints, plus travel time after 15 minutes. I don't do this for a living.

I'm not even sure how people make a living off of this business.

Considering the learning curve, cost and upkeep of equipment, post processing time, and administrative time there is not much of anything left over when paid.

I need to do 24 $500 family portraits just to get the cost of my equipment back never mind all the time.

IMO a good wedding photographer should be making an average of $5000 - $7000 a wedding. A qualified amateur up to $2500. A hack with little knowledge and a D40 $600.00 plus.

[kat]

Wow..I am feeling sort of hackish with my D40... :(

[dlk]

This is a great discussion and I agree with many thoughts posted. This is a slippery slope, isn't it? Having read what you all have said so far, and in response to TT, I conferred with an old acquaintance, Merriam-Webster. Here is some of what said about a professional: engaged in one of the learned professions (hmmm. . . who gets to decide what a learned profession is?); participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs; one that engages in a pursuit or activity professionally.