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**Travis** · 09-09-2008, 01:40 PM

Well... most prosumers and pro's end up with a combination like this..

-A main body
-Wide landscape lens in the 12-24mm area
-Macro portraiture prime in the 100mm area
-A nifty 50 and 85mm prime
-a mid range zoom in the 20 - 70 range
-a tele zoom in the 70 - 200 range
-if into wildlife a 300 or 400mm prime, or 300 to 500mm zoom
-teleconverters
-a back up body (usually a lighter or older body)
-a hot shoe flash
-if your camera supports multiple flash triggering add 2 to 3 more flash units

This is a system... the bodies come and go and the rest of the lenses/gear work around the new bodies you buy. If a newer lens comes out then we are back to my original points. Is there demand for your old lens? Is there good resale value in your old lens? Can you get rid of it quickly to free up money for your new lens?

**ret** · 09-12-2008, 03:11 PM

Today, I checked the Sony A300 and the Pentax D20

Only positive, I found with the Sony was its tiltable screen .... The buttons were badly laid out. The live view switch is on the top panel of camera which I didn't like. The view through the viewfinder was not that inviting. the kit was priced at $649

The Pentax D20 on the other hand felt sturdy. Mostly things were well-laid out. At $1200 for the kit, it looked like a good buy for those who want a sturdy camera

Didn't get a chance to check the image quality and the menu in detail as I just browsed through them so the above is based on my initial impression

**tegan** · 09-14-2008, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by ret

Today, I checked the Sony A300 and the Pentax D20

Only positive, I found with the Sony was its tiltable screen .... The buttons were badly laid out. The live view switch is on the top panel of camera which I didn't like. The view through the viewfinder was not that inviting. the kit was priced at $649

The Pentax D20 on the other hand felt sturdy. Mostly things were well-laid out. At $1200 for the kit, it looked like a good buy for those who want a sturdy camera

Didn't get a chance to check the image quality and the menu in detail as I just browsed through them so the above is based on my initial impression

Well, Popular Photography disagrees with you in labelling the Sony A350 as the best in the area of ease of use, so they obviously think it is well laid out.
I tend to agree with them, but to each his own.

Tegan

**ret** · 09-14-2008, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by tegan

Well, Popular Photography disagrees with you in labelling the Sony A350 as the best in the area of ease of use, so they obviously think it is well laid out. I tend to agree with them, but to each his own.

Tegan

I haven't read Popular Photography but spoke from my little experience with the A300. Also when you look into the Viewfinder and filp the display selector to the live view mode, you can actually see the mirror lifting in the viewfinder, which i found to be crude .... May be Sony employs a different technology for switching from Viewfinder to LiveView .... The view in the LiveView was so dark that it was difficult to see properly while in the ViewFinder you could see things properly

I just read Digital review's take on Sony A350 vs Nikon D80 and the A350 doesn't seem to compare favorably with the aging D80!!!

below is the quote from ergonomics and operations section:

Sony Alpha A350 Compared to Nikon D80 SLR: Ergonomics and Operation

For some camera manufacturers ergonomics seems like an afterthought. In the field, ergonomics can make the difference between a winning shot and a shot missed. The Nikon D80 features two command dials for changing camera settings, located on the front and back portion of the grip similar to the design on the higher end Nikon D300.

One of the benefits that this offers on the Nikon D80 when changing exposure settings is that you can rotate the subcommand dial to select the desired aperture value while you rotate the main command dial to change the shutter speed.

You can easily make adjustments with your index finger controlling the sub command dial and your thumb controlling the main command dial while looking through the camera . This can be a real benefit when it comes to adjusting values quickly in manual exposure modes and when changing camera settings in general.

With the Sony Alpha A350 there is only one control dial located on the top of the grip. To adjust shutter speed settings you rotate the top command dial. To change the aperture when you are in manual mode you have to push the Av button located on the back of the camera while rotating the command dial. In Aperture Priority mode rotating the top command dial changes the aperture settings.

The dial control wheel on the Sony A350 is recessed and fairly small, making it harder to use compared to the larger more protruding control wheel dials on the Nikon D80.

The D80 features two easily accessible operation buttons on the top right grip portion of the camera. The Autofocus (AF) button allows for the selection of focus modes, and the Shooting Mode button provides options for shooting rate, self timer and remote trigger control settings. There are also separate dedicated buttons for selecting metering and exposure compensation making it easier and faster to change these settings compared to on the Sony A350.

The Sony features a Function Button on the back of the camera that once pressed activates a Menu were you can select among frequently used functions including metering, white balance, DRO settings and more.
By pushing the AF button on the Nikon D80 you can activate one of three focus modes: AF-A Auto select (default setting), AF-S Single-servo AF, AF-C Continuous-servo. Again this feature would have to be activated by pushing the Function Menu on the A350 and then selecting your desired option.
The Shooting mode button on the D80 allows you to control how the camera takes photographs: one at a time, in a continuous sequence, with a timed shutter-release delay, or with a remote control. There is also a Function Button located on the front of the Nikon D80 that is designed and can be customized for quick access to a range of functions.

In terms of operation and usability, the main menu and feature control buttons on the Nikon D80 are nested within a grooved channel on the back of the camera. This has the effect of raising the buttons and making them stand out relative to the surrounding area, while still keeping them parallel with the rest of the back of the camera. This helps prevent accidental button activation while the camera is in use.

The buttons on the Nikon D80 are also slightly taller and wider than the rounded buttons on the Sony A350. The general design makes the D80 buttons easier to push and operate (especially if you are wearing winter gloves) compared to the recessed button design on the Sony Alpha A350. On a couple of occasions we found that we had to push down harder or twice to get the desired button to respond and activate on our Sony Alpha A350 evaluation unit.

One other Nikon D80 design advantage that can be seen above is that the "Delete" and "Playback" buttons are located at the top of the camera, which makes it easy to activate these frequently used buttons comfortably with your left thumb while holding the camera in a normal position.

With the Sony A350 we found while holding the camera with both hands, you have to extend your left thumb unnaturally backwards to reach these same two buttons which are now located at the bottom, or you have to change your grip and move your hand further down the base of the camera, activate the button and then move your hand back to a comfortable shooting hold.

**tegan** · 09-15-2008, 08:22 AM

Sony Alpha A350 Compared to Nikon D80 SLR: Ergonomics and Operation

To deal with part of your quote, RET

For some camera manufacturers ergonomics seems like an afterthought. In the field, ergonomics can make the difference between a winning shot and a shot missed. The Nikon D80 features two command dials for changing camera settings, located on the front and back portion of the grip similar to the design on the higher end Nikon D300.

One of the benefits that this offers on the Nikon D80 when changing exposure settings is that you can rotate the subcommand dial to select the desired aperture value while you rotate the main command dial to change the shutter speed.

You can easily make adjustments with your index finger controlling the sub command dial and your thumb controlling the main command dial while looking through the camera . This can be a real benefit when it comes to adjusting values quickly in manual exposure modes and when changing camera settings in general. (END of your quote)

I think he has a warped sense of ergonomic. He says that rotating one dial with your forefinger while rotating another one with your thumb is easier than simply rotating a dial for aperture and pressing a button with your thumb in the position where your thumb is anyway at the right top of the camera without moving your finger off the dial and adjusting for shutterspeed.

The latter Sony method is faster.

Tegan

**tegan** · 09-15-2008, 08:32 AM

Another part of your quote, RET:

By pushing the AF button on the Nikon D80 you can activate one of three focus modes: AF-A Auto select (default setting), AF-S Single-servo AF, AF-C Continuous-servo. Again this feature would have to be activated by pushing the Function Menu on the A350 and then selecting your desired option. (END of quote)

The Sony view would be that an AF mode button is NOT necessary since most shooters would keep it at the default AF-A position or focus manually.
I would certainly NOT say that I am changing autofocus modes so frequently that an autofocus mode button would be useful. On the contrary, it would just get in the way.

Tegan

**tegan** · 09-15-2008, 08:52 AM

To deal with another part of your quote RET:

One other Nikon D80 design advantage that can be seen above is that the "Delete" and "Playback" buttons are located at the top of the camera, which makes it easy to activate these frequently used buttons comfortably with your left thumb while holding the camera in a normal position.

With the Sony A350 we found while holding the camera with both hands, you have to extend your left thumb unnaturally backwards to reach these same two buttons which are now located at the bottom, or you have to change your grip and move your hand further down the base of the camera, activate the button and then move your hand back to a comfortable shooting hold. (END of quote)

I don't see the location of the delete and playback as being an advantage for the Nikon D80 at all. If you are "frequently using" these buttons in the field, then you are wasting battery power and missing shots. The Sony has an automatic playback for a few seconds without any button pushing and that is certainly sufficient for checking out most shots. Moreover Sony views DISP or display information and menu as more important buttons in the field.

Tegan

**ret** · 09-15-2008, 09:22 AM

Originally Posted by tegan

The Sony view would be that an AF mode button is NOT necessary since most shooters would keep it at the default AF-A position or focus manually.
I would certainly NOT say that I am changing autofocus modes so frequently that an autofocus mode button would be useful. On the contrary, it would just get in the way.

Tegan

the point that he is making is that Sony's view is not spot on .... and how would it get in the way?

Originally Posted by tegan

I don't see the location of the delete and playback as being an advantage for the Nikon D80 at all. If you are "frequently using" these buttons in the field, then you are wasting battery power and missing shots. The Sony has an automatic playback for a few seconds without any button pushing and that is certainly sufficient for checking out most shots. Moreover Sony views DISP or display information and menu as more important buttons in the field.

Tegan

But if battery life is a concern then surly the automatic playback function in Sony is likely to drain more battery than an easy option in Nikon to check when you need to playback!!! Moreover the automatic playback in Sony could turn out to be annoying