Critiquing Etiquette...

[Andrew]

Antique guy, I hope my past comments haven't appeared one sided. Again being quite frank, as per your own description of yourself as someone new to photography and being sub-novice I would have to suggest that the comments you have offered, at best, are an opinion. You have stated you don't yet have the knowledge to offer a credible critique someone would value. I don't believe the initial comments were out of line from someone who knew what they were talking about but your self-description along with other photos haven't shown yourself worthy of taking seriously the comments you've left. You are saying you don't even know what you are doing yourself so how can you even imagine offering an opinion anyone will pay credence to? When you get the experience to not only point out shortcomings in your own work and others photography and can offer some valid encouragement then I suggest you look inward and challenge your own competency. As an example I would offer your post on not knowing how to judge basic focus problems. Until then, offer your suggestions based on your very limited experience and temper it with the same consideration you would expect in return. If you're willing to take comments that your own work is just plain sh*t without encouragement on how to improve then let people know and so be it. I am my own best or worst critic depending on how you look at it so I don't have much I feel is good enough to post, When I have though, I know those on this forum whose opinion I appreciate and take to heart. At this moment you have a long way to go. Learn the photography and work towards being one of those people.

[theantiquetiger]

Andrew,

I would agree with you, but actually Iggy suggested to me, that as a novice, I should critique as much, if not more than the experts. He suggested that by me critiquing others, I will learn to critique my own work better. Back in the day when I did BW film in school, I remember shooting prints and getting ready to discard them, but someone in class or the teacher would stop me and have me study it again. I didn't have the skills to critique my own work. One of the prints the teacher stopped memfrom discarding was one of the best shots I had all semester.

If you look at my thread, "pictures of three" or "Point of Focus", there is a photo of three vases sitting on my coffee table. I shot it this afternoon just practicing focusing. That picture of those vases (IMO) is my best shot since picking the camera back up, but when I first took it, it did nothing for me. Now, I really like what I did with the shot, the natural lighting, the couches just out of focus, etc. The point I'm trying to make here is, I may have a great shot of something and not realize it because I don't think to critique myself, and as Iggy said, critiquing other people will help me critique myself.

[theantiquetiger]

Here is that picture. It was just a test shot for practice and now, a few hours later, I love how it came out. I know it is no masterpiece, but if I would have just discarded it and not critiqued it, I wouldn't have noticed the improvement (if just slight) from a similar shot I took just a week ago

Like I said in the last post, this image has alot of stuff I like that I didn't notice at first w/o critiquing. I like how the lines of the couches leads your eyes to the vases, or how the vases and coffee table make a pyramid. Plus I like the OOF of the couches and background.

I've wouldn't have noticed all this stuff if I wouldn't have critiqued myself.

When I get home in the morning, I need to see what that blue dot is under the cushion. I have two young ones, so I'm afraid to look!!!

[Andrew]

Sorry, if that is in fact what he said I have to disagree totally with Iggy. If you don't have the knowledge and base opinions on something you don't know what you're talking about it's just misdirected babbling. (I'll concede he may know more about critiquing than I do). As for your own critique it's too favourable to what you want to see. Being overly critical,,,, it's a large brown smear with no contrast. Just plain and dull. It's under exposed and your vases tilt to the right. A coffee table?? Very unimaginative. See? Criticism without direction is useless. As I said before though, there are lots of valued opinions on this forum we'll both learn to benefit from. Many positive and many negative. That's what makes it interesting and provides each of us fodder to grow on. What new routes can we learn to explore? You and Iggy can pat yourselves on the back and I'll continue to sit on the sidelines looking for those photos and comments that grab me and make me sit up and notice. Nothing positive or negative, just different. That's what makes it nice here.

'Nuff said.

[theantiquetiger]

We have actually changed the topic of the thread from "Critiquing Etiquitte" to "Novice People Critiquing", but I will follow:

Here is the exact words Iggy suggested to me when I did my first critique on this board and I stated that I should be the last person to be doing critiques because of my lack of knowledge and skills:

Iggy - "First off, Antiquetiger, the best way to learn more about photography is to spend time critiquing both other's work and your own so you are exactly the type of person to offer critique"

I took this as a learning tool as he suggested. The few critiques I've done (other than the one with TBond because I forgot), I state that I am a sub-novice and to take my critique with a grain of salt (should be a block of salt lick).

Your critique of my image above does not bother me. I didn't even notice the tilting of vases. You say it's under exposed, I like the darkness. Like I stated in the prior post, I know it's no masterpiece, I just notice the improvements of similar shots of the same vases.

[Bambi]

not having technical knowledge means that perhaps you should critisize the technical aspects of it. However, anyone and everyone has the ability to express what they like or don't like about a photo.

[Andrew]

I fully agree Bambi. Nobody has disputed someones taste. We all like different things and that's what makes the world go around. I critique just about every photo I see. To myself.

[Marko]

I appreciate the back and forth here. I'm thinking I might need to write something up that we can refer to regularly. I'll consult mods and members on this.
This has generally been a "rules" free forum...but it's getting large enough that it needs a few loose ones.

Thx - Marko

[Andrew]

I actually enjoy the banter here but recognize I should have taken a suggestion earlier and not got into a flaming discussion. Sometimes I'm too stupid to just let it go. Rules on expressing ourselves? MY apologies if this hasn't gone as it should have. I'll consider it ended for my part.

[tbond]

Being the recipient of the critique, I would like to say thanks for the honesty.
I do want to know when an image doesn't do the job, but I also want to know what could have been done better, and I realise that there was very little information provided to assist anyone critiquing the image. I have added some more information to the original thread in terms of the camera settings used, etc.
In the educational world we have a little axiom about critiquing someone's work that has served me well. It may be of use in this arena as well, especially as emotions are tied into creating, viewing and responding to images.
The concept is to make a sandwich of the critique. Place the the meat of the critique between two positives.
Be honest because a critique is useless otherwise. however place the meat of the critique in a sandwich.
Regardless of all that, I liked the honesty and I appreciated comment. So many people seem to look and say nothing.
cheers.