Confronted today and questions regarding...

[casil403]

So I am out on a walk doing usual thing photographing building angles. I admit I did climb 2 steps off the boulevard to get a better shot of a building. I then proceeded to step off the steps and shot from the public boulevard sidewalk. When I was on the public boulevard/sidewalk a man (not security) came up to me and said "Excuse me...do you have a permit to photograph this building? I repled nicely "No I don't...should I?" to which he said yes as this was private property. I apologized and said I did not know, that I this as simply a hobby and I thought there was no issue as I was on the public boulevard. If he confronted me on the steps I could see the problem as I was trespassing on the property. however,....there were no signs posted saying I couldn't photograph the building I was photographing it from the outside and when he confronted me I was on the public sidewalk shooting up not in.

I am curious to know who was right in this situation. Once he confonted me I stopped shooting and did not want any hassle so I left and I have no problem with it.
However, but I am curious to know if in fact I could challenge him (I wouldn't...better to just smile, apologize and leave quietly I think rather than start something unless he was being a jerk about it...which he wasn't) on my rights as a photographer to shoot a building from the public sidewalk.
Do I indeed have to have a permit to photograph a building from the sidewalk..could he challenge me if I was on the other side of the street?
If there are no signs posted can I shoot the building from public property?
Anybody have any answers by all means share...I tried looking at the
Rights found here, but it is not clear...
Ambientlight.ca - Laws (http://ambientlight.ca/laws.php#You_are_guaranteed_the_right_to_take_phot ographs)

[casil403]

Oddly enough on the other hand,earlier in the afternoon prior to this incident, I went to my fave hotel and stopped at the front desk to ask if I could take shots of their interior stairs... they were more than happy to oblige, let me shoot and much as I wanted so I stayed and had a glass of wine. :)

[Bambi]

my understanding is that the man had no right to ask you to stop taking photographs unless you were trespassing.

[casil403]

Thanks B...I don't think I was doing anything wrong and I think I was within my rights but I would like some clarity to make certain. I am just curious mostly. :)

[AcadieLibre]

Just so you know if your on public property the general rule is if you can see it you can photograph it. We have had this discussion before but here is Markos well done post on it. (http://www.photography.ca/Forums/f18/rights-photographers-3067.html)

[donkeyriding]

You may all be right or wrong ... that's what is so lovely about the law ... so many shades of gray. Although the situation was explained in some detail, there are some important questions left unanswered ... the most important of which is "what building were you trying to photograph?" Photographers do not have inalienable rights, even where trespassing is not an issue, although many act as though they do (being one myself, I am allowed to say this). Do not assume that if you are not trespassing you are in the clear. The first question I would have asked of the person challenging my right to be there with my camera is "what is your name and who do you work for?," especially if he/she wasn't wearing a uniform and a badge!

[casil403]

It was an office tower...a new one recently built. So recent in fact that the main floor is still vacant.
I just didn't want to get into it with the guy personally until I knew exactly what was going on...hindsight is always 20/20 and maybe I should have., but I went with my gut that said just leave. I am always a big believer in going with the gut.
I was headed home anyhow, was not aware of my rights and didn't want to make a scene until I knew exactly where I was at. I was surprised more than anything by the reaction...especially since I was on a public sidewalk.

[Iguanasan]

Everything I've read and heard is that if you can see it from a public spot you are allowed to photograph it unless there are clearly posted signs to the contrary which you may find at a military base.

Marko's post covers everything pretty well and is good reference. If you are standing on the steps they can ask you to leave as that is private property. If you are in a mall or an office building or a museum and they ask you not to take photos that is their right, you are on private property. They cannot confiscate your camera or memory cards, etc., etc.

The other thing you have to avoid, even if you are in a public place, is taking photos where someone believes they have the right to privacy. You can't point your 300mm zoom lens into someone's bedroom window from the street. They have an expectation of privacy and you would be infringing.

There are many, many shades of grey for all of this but generally if you are in public and you can see it from where you are then you can shoot it. Whether or not you can sell it is a whole other box of wonders.

Oh, just for fun. What is the address of this place? Do you know?

[casil403]

Just as an FYI....here is the last image prior to being confronted. Seem pretty innocuous to me....taken from the public sidewalk. I will post the other taken 2 steps up onto the property as well.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4067/4662089588_96bb46c557_b.jpg

And here is the image I took 2 steps onto their property off the sidewalk to shoot:

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4661492059_f9ff9651de_b.jpg

[Iguanasan]

Uh-oh. They better go arrest Google! ;)

7301

[casil403]

LOL! :laughing: that is the building! Iggy you crack me up!

[casil403]

Oddly enough now that I think about it there is something to be said about those Critical Mass Cyclists and all the awereness they have raised to make cities more bike friendly... Critical Mass - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_Mass)
Maybe we should have a Photography Mass once a month coast to coast country to county where photographers and like minded people gather in one place in every city/town and pick public places to shoot openly en mass.
Not a bad idea to bring media awareness to the cause of what our rights are as and how we are having them taken away or bullied. Strength in numbers right?
Any thoughts on the idea? :shrug:
I know a great building we can do our very first civil disobedience shoot at.... :laughing:

[Iguanasan]

Cool idea... I like the idea of the t-shirt / image "Photography is Not a Crime". A little less confrontational but still makes a statement.

[casil403]

Cool idea... I like the idea of the t-shirt / image "Photography is Not a Crime". A little less confrontational but still makes a statement.

I like it too...I would wear it to the photo mass! :laughing:
Oddly enough there is a guy whose website is just about that very slogan....
Photography Is Not A Crime (http://carlosmiller.com/)

[Grant]

A while back I attended a course on photography and the law. Each province is slightly different but most restrictions are about photographing people.

When it comes to inside buildings if there is no restricted sign then photograph away until someone challenges you once challenged then stop. If you continue shooting after challenged they can charge you with trespassing. You do not have to surrender the images you took before being challenged. The outside of buildings is fair game, shoot away, unless you are on their property and the same rules apply as inside the building. If challenged move off the property and keep on shooting if you want to.

Often people involved will try to intimidate you but it should be noted that trespassing under most cases is not a criminal offense but is a civil matter and the owner of the property has to take you to court. If it is private property and it is not posted once you are told it is private you must leave because from that point on you are trespassing. The one exception, In Nova Scotia, trespassing after dark is a criminal offense and you don’t have to be warned ahead of time, I believe it is to prevent voyeurism.

All this being said I would not push my luck in photographing sensitive installations.

Shooting people is much a different matter and is different from province to province. For example in Nova Scotia you can photograph anyone in public with only a few restrictions while in Quebec you have to have permission to photograph anyone. If memory serves me BC, Saskatchewan, Quebec and Newfoundland have more restrictive rulings than the rest of Canada with Quebec the most restrictive and favouring individual privacy the most.

[Foots]

Your photos are way better than google's.

[Greg_Nuspel]

I've tried to get the photo club to get in someone to talk about photographers rights, but they haven't found anyone willing to provide 'legal advice'. Maybe we could get a shirt that has the rights printed on it, so if someone comes up to you tell them to read the fine print.

[casil403]

OOOh That is good...I can see it..."photography is not a crime" on the front with logo and the rights on the back....preferably near the bottom so you can tell them to "Read my ass!" :laughing: kidding.... but really not a bad idea.

LOL.....and thanks Foots! :laughing:

[casil403]

So again...here I am walking downtown to pick up my matte for the auction for Picture the Cure, camera in hand in case I spot a potential shot as I always do. I am heading down the public sidewalk on 9th ave and 2nd street shooting up at a building making sure to stay on the public sidewalk when rinse repeat...a security geek comes out saying this was private property yada yada yada ...no photos etc....you know the drill.

I just looked at her and said "I am standing on public property and I am not doing anything wrong. She starts in and says I am on private property and I correct her and state that the "public sidewalk is indeed public property where I am standing so I am not doing anything wrong"... .she turns and walks away saying nothing (realizing that I am not going to back down) waving her hand in disgust as she leaves....I took a couple more shots for spite ;) from the public sidewalk and moved on.

Score one for me today. :highfive:

[Iguanasan]

:highfive::highfive::highfive:

[Bambi]

:highfive::highfive::highfive::highfive:

did you tell her to contact google?

[Matt K.]

Maybe you could have taken a picture of they guy asking you the question? Then told him you were on public property, and you have every right to take images of anything, unless there is a sign prohibiting you from doing so (as there may be from time to time .. military installations, for example). Then get your cell phone out, dial a fake number and say: Officer, I am being harrassed!