Newbie help indoor shots

[Travis]

Hi everyone,

This is my first post to the forum. I am a dangerously new photographer with a D60. I left the point and shoot world because of lost moments due to shutter lag and blurry evening pictures.

The dog picture was my first shot after I got in the car in ripped the box open. While the background setting has little to be desired, I was astounded in what level of detail I was missing.

I need some help taking low light pictures. My living room is a bit of a challenge sporting dark walls, floors, furniture with relatively small windows.

In reviewing other critiques it would appear that I prefer underexposed pictures. I'm okay with that. I prefer warm indoor glow and try to stay clear of the flash whenever I can.

Sample 1 shows an attempt with no flash. F3.8 1/40 iso800 +2ev exp comp. This is just a grab shot but I am pleased with the general lighting level. My questions are:

1. The overexposure from the window is an obvious deal breaker. What should I doing to balance the darker inside with sunny outside?

2. Where should my focal point be on a picture of this style? The compression of this picture has revealed a bit of blur that is not so apparent on the true copy. Is this lack of focal point or the higher iso setting?

Sample 2 Is the cameras auto setting with flash f/3.5 1/60 iso 200 0.0exp comp

You can see the window issue is fixed, but I don't like what the flash does to the walls. The flash reflection off the dog and the leather furniture is also undesirable to me.

Any help you could provide me with shooting in this room would be appreciated. It should also be known that at this point I'm not into using any post production.

ps - i notice that the sum of all 3 of these pictures is just over 100k..... hope they are not over compressed

[Marko]

Hi Travis,

Welcome to the forum!

This will be a shortish one that I'll come back to but here goes.

First off - VERY cute shot of the dog in the car!

Ok here goes
1. The overexposure from the window is an obvious deal breaker. What should I doing to balance the darker inside with sunny outside?

There are 2 things you can do.
Your camera's sensor can only handle about 5.5 stops of range from the darkest elements to the lightest.
1 - So option 1 is to live with lighting level that is there. This shot looks overexposed and the +2ev exp comp. is doing it. The camera choose that setting instead of you. I would have shot this without the +2ev

I STROGLY RECOMMEND THAT YOU ONLT SHOOT IN MANUAL MODE. That way YOU are in control. You take the time to get a good exposure and think about the exposure while you are taking it. Although "grab shots" are good souveniers they make for lousy teaching tools.

What should I doing to balance the darker inside with sunny outside?

2 - This is where flash comes in. You can balance the foreground and background with flash. For the time being, forget about flash though. Learn basic exposure FIRST or it will get confusing.

In this shot, IMO there is no need to balance - The ONLY advantage to balancing the outdoor and inddor light is getting a good exposure in the window as well as the people in the scene. But unless this is an artsy shot the main subject are the people, so i would forget abot the window.


I'll come back to shot 2 a bit later but it looks well exposed to me.

BTW - EACH shot can be up to 100k - There look a bit blurry due to compression, but not so blurry that we can't properly critique them.

Hope that helps,

Marko

[AcadieLibre]

Also with your photos the over exposure can be corrected in post processing. ie: Photoshop Elements, Lightroom, Aperture, Photoshop or any other photo program. I assume you got some software with your camera, learn it and you can adjust your photos to look better. I am not sure what Nikon software gives you but like Canon I am sure they give you something. I really was not big on what Canon gave me so I use Aperture for post processing. Usually what you do get is decent enough to get you started.

[Travis]

Hi everyone thanks for the input. I think there may be confusion because the pictures uploaded in a different sequence then I intended. Also, I wasn't very clear as to settings. So in the order they appear in this thread, the first living room picture is:

"Sample 2 Is the cameras auto setting with flash f/3.5 1/60 iso 200 0.0exp comp

You can see the window issue is fixed, but I don't like what the flash does to the walls. The flash reflection off the dog and the leather furniture is also undesirable to me."

And the second picture of the living room in this thread is:

Sample 1 shows an attempt with no flash. F3.8 1/40 iso800 +2ev exp comp. This is just a grab shot but I am pleased with the general lighting level. My questions are:

1. The overexposure from the window is an obvious deal breaker. What should I doing to balance the darker inside with sunny outside?

2. Where should my focal point be on a picture of this style? The compression of this picture has revealed a bit of blur that is not so apparent on the true copy. Is this lack of focal point or the higher iso setting?"

The second living room shot is mine per say. I used the camera's "P" function and dialed in the +2ev exp, the 800iso, and messed a little with the white balance. The camera controlled the aperture/shutter in response to the
adjustments. I had to crank up the exposure and iso in order to achieve my flashless shot. The blazing window is the only thing that bothers me because I find it distracting.

Marko - I only shoot in "auto" to give me a rough reference of how my pictures are stacking up against "the machine". I wouldn't have bought a slr just to keep it in auto. However, I am still too green to shoot in "M" unless I'm shooting a study subject where I spend a couple of hours playing around taking 100 pictures of the same thing. Mixing Aperture, Shutter Speed, Exposure, ISO, White balance, and Flash Compensation is too much for me in my second week. So I'm just trying to take control bit by bit. Starting with ISO, Exposure, and White Balance. Once I have those concepts clear, then I move to Aperture/Shutter. Is this a good approach?

My short term goal in photography is to replicate what I see with my eyes (in terms of colour accuracy, and detail). Nothing more, nothing less. My eyes don't see flash reflection off a dog, so I don't want it in my picture. My eyes don't see a blazing window, so I don't want it in my picture. This goal is harder to achieve than I thought. I now realize buying a SLR is like buying a Les Paul Guitar, just because it's a nice sounding piece doesn't mean you can play it.

Acadie Libre - Thanks for tip on editing software. I am currently using/learning GIMP. At this point, I'm not a big fan of post production. I'd like to learn to use the camera to it's (and my) limits before I get into post. Otherwise, I could get lazy and just take all my pictures in auto, then post produce to my needs. I don't want to use software to create/set/alter a mood that isn't/wasn't there to begin with. I want to find the mood and accurately capture it.

Sorry for the long winded post, but it's hard to help me if you don't know where I'm coming from. Also, no disrespect to anyone who is heavily into post. Just my personal preference.

Does this change the feedback Marko? Also, on wide shots with multiple people is there a rule of thumb as to focal point? Where would your focal point be on this shot? (Again with the window).

[Marko]

This is a bit of a confusing thread due to the order of the pics so I'm just going to comment mostly on the focal point.

In the second shot with the dog where you used the flash, even though you dislike the flash - that shot is more balanced (precisely because u used flash) in terms of overall tone. The window is less distracting here because it isn't as overexposed as in the other shots. The eye had a natural tendency to go to the brightest elements in the scene. The main lesson in all of this should be BEWARE that very bright elements in a scene will throw off the camera's exposure that the camera can handle MUCH LESS of a tonal range than your eyes. In terms of that shot though, besides the flash - that shot needs work. IMO the is no real focal point here or maybe it's the boy. It's basically a shot of people watching T.V. with a dog whose head you cut off.

In terms of focal point, that's really up to you at the moment you take the photograph. You can't really ask another person what the focal point is...it's up to you to choose it.

If these were my shots I would have asked the people to move around because the window is indeed destroying these shots. If the window wasn't there - these would be more interesting, with different family members interacting.

You choose the focal point by deciding what is the most important element in the shot. Then through compostion, selective focus/aperture and subject placement etc you take the shot.

it is equally your reponsibility to look out for distracting elements and change your position or your subjects' positions when they enter the frame.

and all of this gets easier with experience. Next time you see a window in the center of your shot...it's unlikely you'll photograph it right?

Also i would concentrate on scenes that are not so busy...especially to start.

Hope that helps,

Marko

[Travis]

Thanks Marko.... good lesson learned... stay AWAY from bright windows if you can....

"In the second shot with the dog where you used the flash, even though you dislike the flash - that shot is more balanced (precisely because u used flash) in terms of overall tone. The window is less distracting here because it isn't as overexposed as in the other shots. The eye had a natural tendency to go to the brightest elements in the scene. The main lesson in all of this should be BEWARE that very bright elements in a scene will throw off the camera's exposure that the camera can handle MUCH LESS of a tonal range than your eyes. In terms of that shot though, besides the flash - that shot needs work. IMO the is no real focal point here or maybe it's the boy. It's basically a shot of people watching T.V. with a dog whose head you cut off."

lol... I submitted this picture as a tonal representation of what i don't like about flash in this room (especially the walls).... I understand the picture itself is essentially junk...

I'll be back with lots more questions....

[Marko]

Please do post more shots! If possible, please just post 1 (or 2) shot per thread as it's less confusing. Also every shot has MANY elements to discuss (exposure, compostion, distractions etc.) Of course feel free to post multiple threads if you have many shots you'd like feedback on.

This will allow us to focus in on 1 shot and provide better comments.

Thanks!
Marko

[tegan]

In your shot in post 4, you should be isolating the couple just under the window and you really need a f.2.8 70 to 200mm to do that very well.

This type of photography takes quite a bit of skill and experience as well as the right equipment and speed in framing and shooting correctly. It is not a good place to begin your photographic efforts as a beginner.

Tegan