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Mad Aussie
03-14-2009, 12:33 AM
I'm curious as to what people think about intervention in nature in regards to a photographer.

We've all seen those terribly graphic shots of a lion killing a zebra.

Not many of us are likely to be a situation where we are torn between snapping away to get that 'nature in action' photo or to rush in, punch Mr Grisly Bear in the face and save that poor Salmon.

I would think in situation like those our own survival instinct would prevail so that Mr Grisly does indeed have fish fingers for dinner instead of human entrails.

But what about something a bit more tangible and a bit more likely to happen in front of you?

Lets say something like a butterfly caught in a web. Or a dragonfly drowning in a pond?

Do you reach out and save the poor creature or do you let it die as you record it's death on your memory card?

What if it was not an insect but a small animal like a squirrel trying to climb out of a ditch but it keeps falling back into the water. Slowly it gets more and more tired and you know that it will soon give up and sink below the surface?

Some graphic shots are staring you in the face. But a creatures eyes and light are fading. What do you do? What DO YOU do? :confused:

jjeling
03-14-2009, 01:35 AM
I usually leave things as they are. I like to remain as distant from the scene as possible to capture the events as they would without my presence. Admittedly though, sometimes I have manipulated nature in order to get my desired shot. Specifically with snakes. Generally, snakes will move away from you when your around. The only way Ive known to battle this is to control the snake itself, while in its environment. The snake will normally sit still and keep an eye on me, leaving me enough time to take several shots before he moves, and then Ill grab it and move it again. I do not intentionally feed animals to draw them in or go to the zoo to take images either. Anything wildlife photography I capture is always as I see it in the wild(with the exception of snakes). As much as I would like to feed birds to draw them near also nears the ethics borderline as well. I prefer to catch animals in their native habitat, not next to a feeder, or behind a piece of glass. Im not saying I make ethical decisions 100% of the time, but that is generally the case.

Mad Aussie
03-14-2009, 01:44 AM
So would you save the Squirrel JJ? Or let it die and get the shot? I guess most of us would try to do both but if that weren't possible ....

jjeling
03-14-2009, 11:06 AM
I would personally let the squirrel die and get the shot. There are so many of them here they are actually considered pests to a certain degree. Sounds a bit crazy, but Ive actually eaten them before. They are considered a good treat to a lot of people here, but you have to eat the ones from the woods and not the squirrels eating crap from the city. Ive shot many a squirrel with a .22. Ive caught and eaten many a fish. Animals dieing is just a part of life. As bad as I feel for the animal losing its life, I feel just as glad he does not have to be here. You wouldn't know what the sun was if it weren't for the night. The whole Ying and the Yang theory. So really to answer your question, I would probably take a few pictures, watch the squirrel die, take a couple more pictures, then eat it it! HAHAHA

F8&Bthere
03-14-2009, 12:18 PM
...punch Mr Grisly Bear in the face and save that poor Salmon...

That line made me chuckle, thanks!

Luckily I don't get out enough to find myself in these ethically challenging situations. But I'm pretty sure my inclination would be to save the drowning squirrel. Now as for punching Mr. Grizzly or saving the half eaten zebra... my chunky little butt would be wiggling pretty fast in the other direction if I even saw either scene from 300m away (after a few quick shots, of course).

Mad Aussie, are you always this deep and philosophical? Lots of thought provoking threads lately! Lots of fun!

tirediron
03-14-2009, 01:28 PM
Ooohh... tough moral question. My answer is, "It depends". If Mr. Squirrel's danger was man-made, then I would forgo the shot to save him. If it was "natural danger", then I would leave things be. Oh, and MA, I'm not sure how evolution played out down under, but here in North America, fish don't have fingers! :p

Gem
03-14-2009, 01:41 PM
I've never been in a situation like that so I can't say for sure. I would like to think that I wouldn't interfere with nature but mostly likely, I'd try to have the best of both worlds. That is, hurriedly snap off a few pics and then try to help the poor thing (referring to the squirrel scenario). For something like butterflies and dragonflies, I probably wouldn't help. They're bugs, and I wouldn't particularly care (as bad as that might sound). Lol, and I DEFINITELY wouldn't get inbetween a lion/bear and zebra/salmon.

http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-forum/nicethread.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org) (without the cigarette of course. ;))

Mad Aussie
03-14-2009, 03:01 PM
Interesting answers so far.

JJ ... I didn't know rednecks lived so far north!! ;)


Oh, and MA, I'm not sure how evolution played out down under, but here in North America, fish don't have fingers!
http://www.improvatwork.com/images/Mexican%20Walking%20Fish.jpg ;)


Mad Aussie, are you always this deep and philosophical? Lots of thought provoking threads lately! Lots of fun!
Well I've teased and amused everyone apparently so I thought I'd pretend to be smart for a few moments here and there too. ;)

kiley9806
03-14-2009, 03:34 PM
Or a dragonfly drowning in a pond?

Do you reach out and save the poor creature or do you let it die as you record it's death on your memory card?



this exact thing happened to me!! we were camping at a small lake, and one evening the dragonflys were totally "twitterpated", diving and chasing and generally acting totally frantic, until they attached to another dragonfly. many ended up diving into the water, and getting stuck. most were out of my reach, but one fella was somewhat close to the shore, so i put my cam down, got a long long stick, waded a bit, and after about 10 mins of his stressfully beating his wings in desperation, i scooped him out. i left him on the stick and proceeded to take pictures (what else could i do? mouth to mouth was not an option). you can tell in the pics that he damaged his wings quite badly. he fluttered and sputtered, but never moved. i think he may have broken his back. he eventually died that night, as we found him lifeless the next morning, but i tried my best... im an animal lover. if it were a baby cougar, i probably wouldve done the same thing.

Mad Aussie
03-14-2009, 08:23 PM
he eventually died that night, as we found him lifeless the next morning, but i tried my best... im an animal lover. .
Did you eat him like JJ does to road kill he finds?? http://www.mtbdirt.com.au/home/smf/Smileys/classic/biglaugha.gif

Cool story Kiley!!! Quite obviously you'd save the Squirrel and let him go! (So would I ;) )

I do like TiredIron's thinking also.

casil403
03-14-2009, 08:36 PM
For me it depends....
I think if it were an animal eating another, I wouldn't get involved because it's the "circle of life" (cue Elton John on piano here.....) and who knows how long the predator/or it's young has gone w/out food? What else is affected by my involvement?

If it's a something alone in distress (say the dragonfly or a deer stuck out on the ice) I would drop the camera try and help but only if it didn't affect my safety first.

My hunny says if he's eating it, no one should interfere so feel free to set up the tripod an shoot....you have his permission! :D
There ya have it!

jjeling
03-15-2009, 03:11 AM
Ever hear of roadkill stew? mmmmmmm :yuck:

I always thought roadkill would make an interesting image. Never really gave that one an effort, but maybe one day. Has anyone here tried that?

Mad Aussie
03-15-2009, 03:16 AM
Ever hear of roadkill stew? mmmmmmm :yuck:

I always thought roadkill would make an interesting image. Never really gave that one an effort, but maybe one day. Has anyone here tried that?
What??? Eaten road kill? :eek:
No JJ ... I know this hard to accept ... but Squirrel's are not the staple diet of most ordinary humans!! http://www.mtbdirt.com.au/home/smf/Smileys/classic/groan.gif
You been hanging with your snakes too much me thinks kid! http://www.mtbdirt.com.au/home/smf/Smileys/classic/nahnah.gif

EJC
03-15-2009, 10:15 AM
Surely you have sun dried road kill in Aussie.:p

On a more serious note. The debate is whether nature should take it's coarse or we should assist a creature in distress. I was shooting a river yesterday and a plastic bottle drifted past on it's long journey to the gyres (http://science.howstuffworks.com/great-pacific-garbage-patch.htm) in the oceans of our world. The plastic in these gyres kill every thing in the marine food chain and will never be removed from the environment. My question is . Does anyone out there pick up any plastic they come across when out shooting?

cheers
EJC

casil403
03-15-2009, 10:52 AM
Ooooooh....that's a good one!

Marko
03-15-2009, 11:21 AM
A very provocative thread.
My 2 largest passions on this earth are photography and my love for animals. I would absolutely 'save' any animal I could provided I would not put myself in real jeopardy before getting the shot. If I could have the best of both worlds I'd shoot first and save later.

A long time ago my wife and i were in Indonesia and a goat on a cord on the side of the road was tied to a pole and in an effort to get loose walked round and round the pole until it was almost strangling itself. My wife and i who passed by the goat in a Rickshaw made the driver stop and untangled the goat. We had cameras with us, and did NOT take 1 frame and felt great for helping.

I do realize all this helping is against Star Trek's prime directive (lol) but I'm a pretty big animal welfare dude. So for me, the choice is helping the animal if I can 100% of the time over getting the shot.

JAS_Photo
03-15-2009, 12:13 PM
I am not exactly an out in the wilds shooter but if I were to say witness a mountain lion take down a baby deer, and it was safe to photograph, I would. If an animal was in distress due to man caused hazards, and I could help it, I would. I would not be inclined to photograph an animal in the throws of death struggling to escape a preventable and man made situation. If it was to say document water birds in an oil spill or a duck with one of those plastic six can rings around its neck, definitely yes. Sometimes shock value is the only way to get reaction and action.

Captain Kirk broke the prime directive weekly, mostly to regrettable results especially for ensign number 4 or whichever it is. :)

Gem
03-15-2009, 12:20 PM
Surely you have sun dried road kill in Aussie.:p

On a more serious note. The debate is whether nature should take it's coarse or we should assist a creature in distress. I was shooting a river yesterday and a plastic bottle drifted past on it's long journey to the...
Something like that, I would remove; it's man made and doesn't belong there in the first place. If it's plastic, why isn't it being recycled?! (My first thought, lol.) Recycling is pretty big in Edmonton (something like ~60% of all garbage gets recycled), so I think that would be a common response here. I can't remember if I've come across any plastic though....

kiley9806
03-15-2009, 12:33 PM
as always in nature photography, i use the motto 'take only pictures, leave only footprints', so if i see any garbage littered, i take it with me.

casil403
04-01-2009, 09:34 PM
Last year we had some robins nesting in the tree out front about 4 feet off the ground. I would check on them almost every day...look in the nest when the parents weren't around and watch them with binoculars off the deck....

One day I came home and the nest had been turned on it's side and all three of the little naked baby robins fell out and were laying on the ground. They were still alive but not for much longer by the looks of them. I put the 2 squirmiest ones back in the nest, and righted the nest as best as possible. I left the other baby on the ground as he looked dead then I called my spouse who told me I should put the other one back in the nest and let the robin parents deal with it. So I did...I remember the poor little guy was so cold and wet but it turns out it was still alive after all. When Mike got home, he secured the nest to the tree branch with a bunch of plastic tie downs with the 3 babies still in it and the parents attacking him!

Well, the babies lived, grew, fleged and we never saw them again....we felt pretty good about that! :highfive:

I'm hoping they come back again this year so I can take lots of pictures!

I guess we intervened in a good way. :)

Iguanasan
04-01-2009, 10:15 PM
I don't know how I missed this thread before but here's a chance to put in my :twocents:

To me it would be a "depends" answer too. If it was natural but misfortunate (squirrel falling in a hole) I would try to help the squirrel out. If it was one animal catching another for lunch I would let it happen. Who am I to take away someone else's lunch??