Help me hit that Golf Ball!!!

[theantiquetiger]

In the past year or so, I have purchased nearly $4000 in equipment, watched hours and hours of blogs, videos, but still cannot get that shot. I treat images like a golf shot, anyone can hit a golf ball, it takes hours of correct practice to hit it consistently and make it go where you want it to go. In the 1000's of photograph golf balls I've hit, I've only hit it correctly a half dozen times. I have an eye for subject and I know what I want to accomplish, but still my images just look like snap shots, not works of art.

People tell me to watch this blog or that blog, but I know what and how to do what they are talking about.

I do feel I get out there to shoot and lose my mind, cannot remember a thing, like writers' block or psyching yourself out when you step to the plate in baseball.

Any suggestion?

[Runmonty]

If you find out please let me know - I share your frustration.

I think perhaps you sell yourself short sometimes. Some of your photos (particularly of your kids) have been "on the green". I loved your girls with the umbrella.

Everything I see and hear about this comes back to the same thing - Take more shots, critically evaluate and repeat taking more shots.

I wonder if a specific project may help? (if your work commitments allow). I don't know - just throwing it out there. I feel I have had some benefit from my windows project

For me I find the assignments on this site valuable for making me expand my comfort zone and making me shoot things I normally wouldn't. (the light painting one is one example that springs to mind).

I have also noticed by following some random people on Flickr, that only a few people have a high success rate. I have started following some people based on a couple of brilliant photos, only to be disappointed by their more mundane stuff that is posted on a regular basis. I guess, for most, not all shots are winners

I too will be interested to read the advice of other members of the forum.

[Realist]

I suppose some people are born with an artistic sense, but it doesn't come to me that easily either. I suppose you could compare this to any sort of sport. You practice religiously yet progress is slow, almost unnoticeable, but there's progress. There's no learning how to be a master overnight, and to be honest not everyone will be a master. It takes a dedication and a devotion to not give up and press on. I think knowledge is helpful, but practice and experimentation is what will build your skills.

[Iguanasan]

Great topic for a blog post :)

Seriously, though, I think you guys are selling yourselves short as I think I often do myself, either that or I suck too. :)

I struggle every day to make a decent shot and generally consider many of my shots crap but others seem to like them. Artists, in general, are never satisfied with their work. There is always something they could have done differently to achieve what they feel is a better result. The hardest person to please is yourself.

Interestingly, enough, I have the same issue with karate - a martial ART. I've managed to reach the level of sandan, jun shidoin (third degree black belt, assistant instructor) and many days I feel like I don't have a clue about what I'm doing. However, as I often say to my kids, much to their chagrin, it's all relative. If I compare my current self to what I was like when I was a white belt, or a yellow belt, or an orange belt, I'm way ahead. I'm just never satisfied with my current self and so I continue to strive forward.

All art is about the journey and not the destination. If you listen to "accomplished photographers", many of them - at least the ones with normal egos - will tell you they feel the same way and meanwhile you are blown away by their results.

I try not to send people to another podcast out of respect for Marko, however, I'm sure he won't mind this one. If you haven't listened to this particular episode of the Candid Frame, then please, do so - The Candid Frame: A Photography Podcast: The Candid Frame #89 - Stephan Oberhoff (http://thecandidframe.blogspot.ca/2010/02/candid-frame-89-stephan-oberhoff.html) This episode was kind of pivotal to me. I believe you'll find it well worth the 1 hour investment.

After all this I may just put this answer on my blog :)

[theantiquetiger]

When I bought my new lens yesterday, I was telling them I'm still struggling with the camera, still learning it. I let him talk me into a Promaster video on the Canon 60D. Boy, was that a waste of time and money. It went over the VERY basics of camera usage. If you are going to purchase a camera like a 60D, at least know the basics of general use of any camera. The only thing it taught me was to reformat the card every so often to help keep the speed of the camera.

[Bambi]

:twocents: well if you want my two cents here it is:

I echo what others say about how we are not satisfied with our work. That is good as long as it pushes you to improve but not if it stops growth.

FWIW I saw the most gain in my photography by two things: taking lots of shots and studying not only my successes but my failures have taught me even more- especially the 'near misses'. I studied them and then tried again. And again and again. Not that I rate myself that high but I have fun and am still advancing so what the heck.

Another piece of advice that I might give is to stop buying stuff and studying stuff and just go out and take photos. and more photos. Learn the equipment that you have.

When I take a photo I try to stop and think about what it was that attracted me to take the shot and how would I convey that to the viewer.

[theantiquetiger]

Trust me Bambi, after buying this lens, my equipment buying days are over for quite some time.

[Realist]

When I take a photo I try to stop and think about what it was that attracted me to take the shot and how would I convey that to the viewer.


I think that's pretty good advice. I need to look at my images and ask myself how someone would critique it, and why I like it.

It reminds me of work in the sense that you would work very hard and get the job done very well. In order to cover all the bases we had to ask ourselves how leadership would look at the job, and what else would they think we had to do. If you can find something additional that you can fix or modify before you finish the job you'll save yourself lots of work. It's also how the product life cycle works as well. You get an idea, you make a product, you research it, then you fix it. To apply this to photography you would have to come up with an idea, take the photo, scrutinize it and analyze it, and if you don't like it fix it. Easier said then done as I have problems with this. I don't think enough while I'm shooting, and I'm not paying enough attention to the details.

[Marko]

I'm with Iggy here but I'll also take a practical stab at it - Consider a scene you want to shoot. Consider the elements around you that make up that scene. Don't rush, there's no need to rush. Put the camera on a tripod. Explore the scene. Take your time. Frame the scene you want. Be active with the framing. Maybe put the camera on live view and refine that composition. Try not to think of this process as a hassle but rather as a tool for helping to get a good composition. Photography is problem solving - it can be a fun challenge. Then shoot. Obviously this won't work for all subjects and genres like sports photography but when we slow down we get better. There is no need to rush. People don't care if you take your time photographing them or some random element in this universe - unless you are getting paid for it. Don't take money until you are (sort of ) comfortable with this craft. Shoot at least a few times a week. Make it happen.

I've watched everyone here get better and better. No BS. No member is regressing. I still hate most of my images and I've been shooting a while. It's the endless process of shooting and learning and shooting again. This is especially true when we do this primarily for artistic reasons. Start looking at the works of other photographers in general. Study the photos of photogs that you like and ask yourself why u like their work.
Think about the composition and why it works for you. Rip it to shreds in your mind and guess exposure elements and lighting patterns.
and slow down. :)

Yeah this is a good blog post topic - lol. Iggy no worries at all on the podcast link - please, any member should feel free to mention any useful link on our board - I'll have a listen myself on your recommendation.

[JAS_Photo]

I am not going to pretend that I have the answer but I have been watching Scott Kelby's "The Grid" recently and in particular, the blind critiques segments. The fact that you are so critical of your work and keep striving to get better is a pretty good indication you are better than you think.

The Grid - The Grid with Scott Kelby & Matt Kloskowski is a live talk-show about photography, Photoshop & other industry-related topics. Each week features a different guest (in-studio or online) and viewers are encouraged to chime in on the Liveblog (http://kelbytv.com/thegrid)

[theantiquetiger]

Another piece of advice that I might give is to stop buying stuff and studying stuff and just go out and take photos. and more photos. Learn the equipment that you have.


Here I will have to disagree with you. Photography and golf are just alike. The better equipment, the better results. I can pick up a cheap set of used Wilson golf clubs for about $5 at any garage sale. I can use them to hit the ball, play a fun round of golf, etc, but if I buy a set of $1000+ set of Ping golf clubs, my game improves just because the quality of the equipment. The better equipment helps you control the ball.

The same goes with photography. I noticed a HUGE difference in my images when I went from my Canon XSi to my 60D, and from my cheap kit lens and others, to the three lenses I have now. Now please don't think I believe you cannot take great shots with less expensive equipment. My greatest image so far (IMO) was taken with my XSi (daughters with umbrella).

Also, just getting out and shoot pictures is not good advice in my mind. I remember reading a quote somewhere about golf that went something like this, "To be a good golfer, it doesn't take hours of practice, it takes hours of correct practice!" If you consistently practice something incorrectly, no matter how much you practice, you will not improve.

Hitting a golf ball correctly in order to control it to where you want it to go consistently, is considered one of the hardest things to do in the sports world. When you hit it correctly, you feel it in your bones, almost like a quick high from your stroke. When I "nail the golf ball perfectly" in my photography world, I get the same quick high (I play golf as well, about as well as I photograph :) ).

[Bambi]

I think you misunderstood me AT- I didn't mean to not buy good stuff I meant that always focussing on the next purchase to improve your photography might not be the best approach.

[Marko]

I wonder AT, how many times have you gone back to reshoot one of your 'misses'?

Just going out to shoot when you know basic photography rules (as you do) in and of itself WILL 100% make you a better photographer, I stand by that.
This same principle applies in golf or with a musical instrument. We are not talking about a complete novice with a brand new tool that has had zero guidance.

That said, people learn a million times better when they review their mistakes and better them by going out again to correct the error. (in different light perhaps, using a faster shutter speed perhaps, using manual focus perhaps). Maybe learning from our mistakes with the IDENTICAL subject matter (when possible) is valuable.

I wonder if an additional sub-forum called "reshoots critiques" might be a useful learning tool.

[JAS_Photo]

A really good discussion in this episode of the Grid that I found is encouraging and that you may find interesting too.

The Grid: Episode 68 (http://kelbytv.com/thegrid/2012/09/13/the-grid-episode-68-tough-love/)

[theantiquetiger]

A really good discussion in this episode of the Grid that I found is encouraging and that you may find interesting too.

The Grid: Episode 68 (http://kelbytv.com/thegrid/2012/09/13/the-grid-episode-68-tough-love/)

That is a very good video and hits the nail on the head for this topic. I stole a quote for my signature from that video. (I still have about 30mins left to watch)

[JAS_Photo]

I have been on a bit of a "The Grid' kick lately. :)