Can someone help me with this?

[lenfisher1973]

ok, the vibrant colourful shot is what I have been doing so far, the other one is what I want to achieve but am having trouble, Canon t1i using either my new 70-200mm f4L, or my 50mm 1.8, if someone can help me with some basic settings to get started, natural lighting tips, and other advice to achieve shots much like this one, I don't know what picture style in my t1i i should be using, or if customizing one is best,, all other advice is greatly appreciated to help me achieve a result like this, I am well aware of how important crisp focus is, and I'm working hard on that, I think that colour and exposure are issues in getting shots like this one,

Thank you

Len

[Iguanasan]

Well, let's start at the beginning. Are you shooting JPGs or RAW? If you are shooting JPG are you using any special settings of the picture style mode or is it in the default of "Standard"?

Your image above seems very orange to me for some reason. Not sure if it's camera settings or post-processing with a monitor that is not colour calibrated. Or did you have a filter on the camera? What settings were you using for this shot? I see a catchlight from the flash in the eyes. Are you using the built-in flash or do you have a separate flash mounted on the hot shoe? And what did you have your White Balance settings set to?

Sorry, lots of questions but the answers will help determine where the issues may lie...

Oh, and if you don't mind would it be OK if I did a quick edit on your sample image to try and colour correct it a bit? (Not that I'm very good, others might be better)

[Matt K.]

Looks like a JPG shot with the wrong white balance to me. Some of the "pre-programmed" settings on a camera are more trouble than they're worth. I would suggest you shoot in RAW, and then do the processing after.

[Mad Aussie]

Here's my thoughts ...

Judging by your description Len, you are expecting to achieve the same results as the first photo in a single shot with a camera and flash.

If you look at that first shot closely you'll notice there is no strong sunlight around at all. They picked a day where there was a low dynamic range ... i.e ... no strong light creating bright areas and dark shadows. It's possible they used a reflector or weak flash setting to fill the faces as well.

Also, the depth of field (area in focus) is very narrow. I think this was achieved with a zoom lens and I'd say well up in the 150mm or 200mm range.

To emulate what you see in that first image, I think these are the things you first need to replicate.

In your own attempt, the white balance is definitely off, giving that strong orange cast. This could also be in the jpg menu settings you choose. Because I see some post processing going on there (I'll mention that shortly) I know you can bring out colour etc later so I suggest you set those menu settings to as natural/ neutral as possible.

You've added a blur of some type to soften the people which hasn't worked well because now their outlines are softer than the background. Not saying don't use a glamour blur, but it must be in harmony with the rest of the photo as well.

Eyes look sharp, that's a good thing.

So, in summary, get those two, very good looking people, back out there when the light is far more neutral (not bright or casting a strong colour), get back away from them, don't sit them so close to the flowers (or sit them in amongst them if the area is wide enough), zoom in, and snap away with a few different settings and see what you get. Start with an aperture around f5.6 - f8 if light allows and adjust the shutter speed to suit.

[lenfisher1973]

Shooting in raw for sure, on the picture setting issue, i'm using a customized version of lanscape actually, probably the wrong one for what i want because saturation is boosted way up on it, should i be in standard? the orange was initially due to the setting sun with absolutely no clouds, and then when i edited it i boosted it it some more, way too much obviously wich created the orange, no filter, oddly enough, no flash at all, not sure where the glimmer in the eyes came from, i hnestly don't recall my white balance setting, but likely auto, do you think some colour balance tool might be useful for me? like maybe a greycard?, please, have atter for editing, see what you can do, i can even email you the original if this is to compressed to do much with it
appreciate anything you have for advice and results, i have been playing around with more neutral picture style settings and that has me a little closer

[lenfisher1973]

Shortly after i got my t1i i learned the hard way to always shoot in raw, i lost out on an incredible opportunity with a lynx in a tree enjoying a feast of rabbit on a winter morning, it was incredible, i stood under the tree for at least 45 minutes shooting, and got nothing but junkie shots, i almost cried when i got home, shoot in raw ever since that religously, and edit raw as well

[lenfisher1973]

Wow, thank you so much for your advice, looking at the photo i did while using your points as a checklist i see clearer now what i need to do and look for in shooting, and do less of in editing, i've already experimented with neutral picture style settings and that has helped, do you suggest some sort of white balance tool like a "cap" or greycard, as apposed to trying to match the few automatic settings on the camera? i shot this using my 70-200 f4L but at 70mm, i see your point about getting back and zooming in, as well as the proximity to the background for the subjects, these are actually 2 of my employees and i love them to death, sweet couple and i wanted to get them some great shots, they are letting me shoot again this weekend but it is supposed to be similar conditions as this shot, so i think i will do some scouting and find somewhere with either some "sun blockage" like a canopy of trees, or do you think that a complete even shade would be good as well? i have a 5 in 1 reflector wich also acts as a difuser if i take the coloured sleeve off, i can maybe difuse if i need to, or reflect to fill as you suggested, Thank all of you very much for your advice, my last shots i asked for critique on were just not in focus, and i have worked on that since, i hope that the focus in this sample is much better

[lenfisher1973]

just out of curiousity, what is it that made all of you believe i was shooting jpeg? you all brought it up, so there must be something in the image that tips you off to that, is it an image quality thing? sometimes i notice, but not as much with my L lens, that i get strange and unwanted colours on edges where they shouldn't be, too saturated maybe? thanks

[Marko]

i'm using a customized version of lanscape actually, probably the wrong one for what i want because saturation is boosted way up on it, should i be in standard?

Why would you use this setting for a portrait when the setting is called landscape? That's just asking for trouble imo because you are going against what the setting is for....and if this landscape setting is your default setting for all shots, again you are just asking for trouble.

Do pure landscape shots work with this setting?

Bright sun needs a setting, cloudy days another setting, lightbulbs need another setting...etc. One setting will never cut it, ever, because different lights have different colour temperatures and individual settings are set for more specific colour temperature ranges.

Personally I shoot most stuff with the AWB (automatic white balance) Then I correct as needed in photoshop but it's usually reasonably close.
Hope that helps - Marko

[Mad Aussie]

Good grief ... you've asked a LOT of questions in there!! I'll start slicing through them ...

Why did we think jpg. The white balance being so far off. When you should AND process RAW, you just adjust the white as you please during processing. So, although using a grey card will aid in getting it right at the time, you don't actually need it as you can adjust easily later.

Strange unwanted colours. Guessing you are talking about the cyan or pink edges you get along some edges. If so, this is called Chromatic Aberration and occurs along the edges of things in your photo where very bright meets very dark. Think of lightning ... bright lightning against a dark night sky. You often see this CA there. Many RAW processing software have something for removing it. Cheaper lenses create it more readily than something like Canon's L Series like you are using but you'll still get it with them too.

Auto Settings. I don't use them at all. I shoot RAW and process (develop) everything later in the digital darkroom of Photoshop.

Lighting/Shade. Under a canopy of trees is ok if it's even light. If it's mottled light it will create shadows where you don't want them. Once you've chosen your spot, just try the reflectors and see if they seem to help. Even a tiny bit of reflected light on a face can help.

Focus. Well the diffused glow around the couple pretty much made focus impossible to tell. The eyes still appeared sharp but nothing else did. This helped lead me to believe you had applied a glamour blur or even an ethereal glow filter to soften the skin. I'm really surprised to learn you didn't.

I wouldn't mind seeing the original and having a crack at processing it actually. I'll pm you with an email address as you suggested.

[Iguanasan]

I'll have my go at answering a few of these questions as well. Hopefully, it won't be a case of too many cooks. I'll try to cover just the points that I thought MA and Marko didn't cover.


Shooting in raw for sure, on the picture setting issue, i'm using a customized version of lanscape actually, probably the wrong one for what i want because saturation is boosted way up on it, should i be in standard? the orange was initially due to the setting sun with absolutely no clouds, and then when i edited it i boosted it it some more, way too much obviously wich created the orange, no filter, oddly enough, no flash at all, not sure where the glimmer in the eyes came from, i hnestly don't recall my white balance setting, but likely auto, do you think some colour balance tool might be useful for me? like maybe a greycard?, please, have atter for editing, see what you can do, i can even email you the original if this is to compressed to do much with it
appreciate anything you have for advice and results, i have been playing around with more neutral picture style settings and that has me a little closer

Picture settings on your Canon T1i will have no effect on the RAW image so you might as well set it to Standard for those few times when you want to shoot JPG. Picture settings are applied to the RAW image to turn it into a JPG in-camera.

Marko already covered it but I'll confirm. I generally always shoot with Auto White Balance as well and if it's not quite right and you are shooting RAW then it can be adjusted in post.

I've sent you my email address along with a link to https://wetransfer.com/ to transfer what should be a 15MB CR2 file via a private message (PM).


Shortly after i got my t1i i learned the hard way to always shoot in raw, i lost out on an incredible opportunity with a lynx in a tree enjoying a feast of rabbit on a winter morning, it was incredible, i stood under the tree for at least 45 minutes shooting, and got nothing but junkie shots, i almost cried when i got home, shoot in raw ever since that religously, and edit raw as well

Some of the people here can do amazing things with post processing... I hope you didn't delete those images, maybe someone can help?


Wow, thank you so much for your advice, looking at the photo i did while using your points as a checklist i see clearer now what i need to do and look for in shooting, and do less of in editing, i've already experimented with neutral picture style settings and that has helped, do you suggest some sort of white balance tool like a "cap" or greycard, as apposed to trying to match the few automatic settings on the camera? i shot this using my 70-200 f4L but at 70mm, i see your point about getting back and zooming in, as well as the proximity to the background for the subjects, these are actually 2 of my employees and i love them to death, sweet couple and i wanted to get them some great shots, they are letting me shoot again this weekend but it is supposed to be similar conditions as this shot, so i think i will do some scouting and find somewhere with either some "sun blockage" like a canopy of trees, or do you think that a complete even shade would be good as well? i have a 5 in 1 reflector wich also acts as a difuser if i take the coloured sleeve off, i can maybe difuse if i need to, or reflect to fill as you suggested, Thank all of you very much for your advice, my last shots i asked for critique on were just not in focus, and i have worked on that since, i hope that the focus in this sample is much better

MA covered this point well with regards to even shade etc.


just out of curiousity, what is it that made all of you believe i was shooting jpeg? you all brought it up, so there must be something in the image that tips you off to that, is it an image quality thing? sometimes i notice, but not as much with my L lens, that i get strange and unwanted colours on edges where they shouldn't be, too saturated maybe? thanks

The reason I had thought you shot in JPG was because the very orange colour of the image (seemed worse on my work computer) seemed like a camera setting gone awry vs a purposeful edit in post processing of a RAW file.

MA covered the chromatic aberration issue quite well I think but what I'll add is that if you make sure you have even lighting within the image you'll dramatically reduce this issue. This is probably the main issue you had with the lynx as I've had it dealing with birds in the trees and a bright sky behind them.

[Iguanasan]

Just got your original. It would be better if the background bokeh was done in camera by putting more distance between your subject and the background and adjusting the depth of field to keep only them in focus but you can fake it a bit with a Gaussian blur in Gimp (Photoshop). Your RAW file is fine. Whatever you did to convert it to JPG caused the orange cast so I'm not sure what your work flow is like. I'll describe what I did to the image below.

1) Opened in Gimp (which starts me off in ufRAW to convert from RAW).
2) In UFRaw I adjusted the base curve a bit to brighten it up and I cropped it to remove the building in the background.
3) I save those changes and move to Gimp. (free image editor)
4) In Gimp, I first selected their eyes and added 10% brightness and applied a slight unsharp mask.
5) Then I adjusted the brightness and contrast using the curves tool to adjust the black level.
6) I applied the unsharp mask to the entire image to sharpen it a bit.
7) I then used the scissors tool to outline the couple and then inverted the selection so I would have the background selected.
8) I feathered the selection by about 100 pixels and applied a Gaussian blur of 50 points to the background.
9) Then I saved it as a JPG at 100% quality.
10) Then exported one for uploading at 1024 pixels wide at 95% (233KB which is under the 250KB limit for getting munged by the software.

12899

[Mad Aussie]

Good job Iggy!

[lenfisher1973]

Wow, that turned out much better than my post did, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain your workflow as well, some very useful tips for sure, i really like the work you did on the eyes especially, and the subjects in general, they now "pop" and i like that, what i like the most is how your post appears to be "seemless" and natural, proper selection is key i imagine, thank you very much for your help and to all of the others as well, again, wonderful tips and advice on everything to settings, and white balance, to composition and finally editing, I rarely if ever delete my raw files unless they are absolute junk or "premature" firings of my feet on the ground, hehehe, 1TB hard drives are awesome :)

[Iguanasan]

Good job Iggy!

Thanks, MA.


Wow, that turned out much better than my post did, I really appreciate you taking the time to explain your workflow as well, some very useful tips for sure, i really like the work you did on the eyes especially, and the subjects in general, they now "pop" and i like that, what i like the most is how your post appears to be "seemless" and natural, proper selection is key i imagine, thank you very much for your help and to all of the others as well, again, wonderful tips and advice on everything to settings, and white balance, to composition and finally editing, I rarely if ever delete my raw files unless they are absolute junk or "premature" firings of my feet on the ground, hehehe, 1TB hard drives are awesome :)

Thanks, Len. That's what we're here for. Helping each other.

[Marko]

Thanks, MA.



Thanks, Len. That's what we're here for. Helping each other.

:goodvibes everyone - Share what you know and learn what you don't know.