Fire in the sky C&C

[PaulaLynn]

From the same walk :D

777

PS.. I know I split the horizon dead center, but didn't know how to quite get the foreground and sun all in the same shot without framing it that way, any suggestions on how to impove on that aspect?

[tegan]

From a photographic point of view, this is a lose, lose situation. The contrast between the brightest and darkest areas of the image is too great. The brightest areas are washed out and the darkest areas could still use more detail. To make matters worse, this is considered a cliché shot by judges in high level evaluations and does not achieve any measure of success and I know that from the personal experience of having submitted similar shots a few decades ago.

Tegan

[kiley9806]

hi there - an idea if you wanted another angle, to get the horizon less than centered, you may have tried squatting down or laying on your tummy to get a different perspective/aspect... i do agree with tegan about the contrast being too great.


"To make matters worse, this is considered a cliché shot by judges in high level evaluations and does not achieve any measure of success and I know that from the personal experience of having submitted similar shots a few decades ago. - Tegan"

i dont see how this is a relevant critique when paulalynn has stated that she is not a professional, and so probably not entering this type of shot on any kind of "high level evalution", and is more than likely using it as a learning tool. i find this type of critique to be discouraging to us newbies, more of a pat on your own back. the contrast comment was all that needed to be pointed out.

[tirediron]

Kiley's bang on with her suggestion to get down. Getting a good shot is easy; getting a great shot often means getting dirty, wet, or both. You could have also tried shooting this in portrait aspect to gain more foreground and move the horizon below centre. I'll also add that your sensor is in desparate need of cleaning.

[PaulaLynn]

:fingerscr How do I solve this problem? As stated, I am quite new and just trying to learn on how to do it right... how do I get a balance on contrast when shooting scenes like this? Do I meter off the sun or the ground... how exactly do I meter, do I press the shutter half way down when focusing on either then recompose? I am willing to take any help I can get at this point :D

[PKMax]

For shots like this your not going to be able to get a shot with the ground and the sky "properly" exposed with the Camera alone, there is just too much difference in the amount of light.

Options:
1. Gradient ND Filter, so that the Sky is exposed less than the ground. but I doubt this will make enough difference for Direct sun shots, or enough to get a good exposure on the ground without blowing out the sun.

2. HDR - High Dynamic Range pics.. where you take several photos of differing exposure, each one having part of the photo exposed as you'd like then re-combining them in PhotoMatix/Photoshop or other HDR tools.

3. Burning/Dodging.. you "might" have enough info in the ground to dodge it back in again, but if you do then it's likely to come back with a lot of noise.


If I was taking this shot, I'd try a Gradient ND firstly (cause I've got one I never use), and then likely do multishots to expose sky/ground and attempt to recombine on the pc.

[PKMax]

and also, as you mentioned for how to choose what your exposing for:
Not sure what camera your using but, holding the shutter half way usually Focus locks, and sometimes depending on the settings will also exposure lock. if not you may have another button set to exposure lock that doesn't alter the focus.

You may also have spot metering, I think I have on my camera, but I've honestly never used it.

for this kind of shot I'd probably revert to Manual, I like manual, I feel in control lol. It only takes a few pics and a quick glance at the LCD to see if it's "right".

you'll need to be using a tripod too if your doing multi exposure to ensure it doesn't move in between shots. so be carefull adjusting the options in between shots for exposure too, you'll want to at least have the camera on Aperture priority if not manual, so that the camera doesn't choose to alter the aperture rather than the shutter speed which would give you different "in focus" photos to combine back together again.

[tegan]

"To make matters worse, this is considered a cliché shot by judges in high level evaluations and does not achieve any measure of success and I know that from the personal experience of having submitted similar shots a few decades ago. - Tegan"

i dont see how this is a relevant critique when paulalynn has stated that she is not a professional, and so probably not entering this type of shot on any kind of "high level evalution", and is more than likely using it as a learning tool. i find this type of critique to be discouraging to us newbies, more of a pat on your own back. the contrast comment was all that needed to be pointed out.

My comment applies to the learning tool approach as well, since even camera clubs take this view. Photography at any level is learning what to shoot and how to shoot it for maximum effect and visual impact. Only someone who is unwilling to learn the what to shoot part would consider it discouraging. As a matter of fact, false encouragment does more a disservice than an honest critique.

Tegan

[PaulaLynn]

Thank-you; I appreciate your detailed response. I was thinking of getting a ND filter. (one more thing on my list of many... LOL) I did attempt a few "HDR" images with my "pathway shots" but for some reason it wouldn't work, photomatrix wouldn't load them... I have spot metering but no other exposure lock feature (at least I don't think I do... I have been in and out and all around my manual... I could probably recite it word for word at this point LOL), so I'm still confused on how to meter off different aspects in the photo without changing focus :confused:

**edit** oh yeah, its a Canon Rebel Xti :D

[Marko]

i dont see how this is a relevant critique when paulalynn has stated that she is not a professional, and so probably not entering this type of shot on any kind of "high level evalution", and is more than likely using it as a learning tool. i find this type of critique to be discouraging to us newbies, more of a pat on your own back. the contrast comment was all that needed to be pointed out.I AGREE 1 MILLION % Kiley. Tegan, your comment about the contrast and your technical experience is appreciated. BUT - This is a learning forum and your comments on what judges might have thought of this image 30 years ago is 100% irrelevant and your tone was too harsh and rude. It takes baby steps and YEARS to get to a level where creativity abounds. Let's be a bit more sensitive to where an OP is coming from please.

Thanks
Marko

[Ben H]

A couple of things I'd say, which aren't immediately obvious when we're new (we've all been there! :)

The camera has a lower dynamic range than the eye. That means that, when you're standing there with a super bright source and foreground detail, is that the camera cannot capture all that. If you expose for the bright source, the foreground becomes almost a silhouette. If you expose for the foreground, the sky becomes completely white and blown out. In this way, you can't have you cake and eat it, so to speak ;)

So - knowing that, try to avoid those situations where there is such an extreme light dynamic - ie don't shoot into the sun. (Like all things, there are exceptions, of course!)

Secondly, here is a useful technique. Ok, say you're taking the picture you posted, which is fine, and composed perfectly well. Take the shot. Ok. Now you've taken the easy shot, force yourself to get three more shots out of the scene. This will make you hunt around for interesting subjects, framing, angles, and composition.

So for example, you might get down very low and make the foreground rocks more imposing, with a little sun peeking out from behind them as shot 1. Perhaps zooming in and focusing on one of the bushes, with a glint of sunlit water behind them as shot 2. And then, maybe zooming in on the water on the edge of the reflections, angling the camera a little, and taking a beautiful textural water shot.

Forcing yourself to find extra shots in the scene is a really useful technique that can help you move beyond the obvious shot, and find some real creativity and spectacular images.

Seeing the opportunities has been quite a learning curve for me too - but once you've unlocked that side of your brain, before long you too will be lining up the obvious shot and finding it unsatisfying, and go hunting for something unique.

That's where a lot of the enjoyment comes in (at least for me). Of course, it all depends on what you want to get out of your photography. But I'd suggest to at least try this technique a few times...

[Fredric]

Wow, Ben, thank you for the tip!

This tip really hit home for me. The three more shots technique is something that I'll definitely begin practicing. Cheers Ben! :highfive:

PaulaLynn, thanks for posting the image so that the marbles of knowledge left in its wake may be picked up by all of us newbies!

[tegan]

I AGREE 1 MILLION % Kiley. Tegan, your comment about the contrast and your technical experience is appreciated. BUT - This is a learning forum and your comments on what judges might have thought of this image 30 years ago is 100% irrelevant and your tone was too harsh and rude. It takes baby steps and YEARS to get to a level where creativity abounds. Let's be a bit more sensitive to where an OP is coming from please.

Thanks
Marko

I disagree 1 MILLION %. Learning what to shoot is as important as how to shoot it and that HAS NOT CHANGED. My tone is NOT harsh and rude. THAT IS YOUR CHARACTERIZATION of a straightforward, honest statement, because you disagree with it.

It is not irrelevant either. NO centre of interest is no centre of interest. Why should that be sugar coated? Why should it need to be sugar-coated?

When I taught children, it was not necessary. Why should it be necessary with adults?

Tegan

[kiley9806]

I disagree 1 MILLION %. Learning what to shoot is as important as how to shoot it and that HAS NOT CHANGED. My tone is NOT harsh and rude. THAT IS YOUR CHARACTERIZATION of a straightforward, honest statement, because you disagree with it."

"It is not irrelevant either. NO centre of interest is no centre of interest. Why should that be sugar coated? Why should it need to be sugar-coated?

When I taught children, it was not necessary. Why should it be necessary with adults?

Tegan


your tone is HARSH & RUDE because of the BLUNTNESS. CAPITALIZATION also seems to imply yelling...
many members would agree.
your knowledge & education is greatly valued & appreciated, but the way you deliver it leaves much to be desired.

my quote of yours in the previous message had nothing mentioning centres of interest.
it was "To make matters worse, this is considered a cliché shot by judges in high level evaluations and does not achieve any measure of success and I know that from the personal experience of having submitted similar shots a few decades ago. - Tegan"
there sure as heck is nothing 'sugar-coated' about that statement.
calling us children is not exactly what i'd consider opposite of harsh or rude either...

[PaulaLynn]

Wow, Ben, thank you for the tip!

PaulaLynn, thanks for posting the image so that the marbles of knowledge left in its wake may be picked up by all of us newbies!

Hey no problem... there is lots more "crap" where this came from..... happy to assist in the learning... LOL! :highfive: LOL!